Okay, I need to revisit an earlier conversation- I know, I know, I can never get away from it.
Sam, what do you mean, you are an arminian?
You see, Verya, God chooses some to be saved and some not. Why? To show His glory. Romans says that God hardened Pharoh's heart; chose Jacob, not Esau; Abel had the better sacrifice, etc. to show His glory! If you view it this way, it all makes sense. Not to mention, this is what the Bible says. Man is sinful. Man does not want God, he wants to stay sinful, but God changes the heart of His elect people so that they have the desire to become Christians. Does that make sense?
And, there's nothing wrong with women being missionaries. I do not agree with women going and preaching to a congregation, they are not meant to do that. But women going with another group, or going with their husbands, or going to help children. I think that is perfectly fine.
Sorry, to start another argument/debate/conversation...
P.S. My Camp Hope post is coming.
A Bit About Me
- MJ
- Washington, United States
- I'm me. I'm nothing without the sovereign, saving grace of God and the perfect work of Christ. I want to live to serve Him. I love my family and friends. And I think "About Me"s are pretty much impossible to write ;-)
27 comments:
Michaela PLEASE, can you drop this?
We all agree to disagree. Good. That is settled. If you want to talk to someone about something, than talk to the face to face, or send them an email . . .
Well yeah, I think we have to agree to disagree on some of these things, but I also don't know anything about Arminianism, so if you could maybe just give an 'unbiased' description favorite big brother, just so we know what it is?
i live like an arminian, practically, in my ideal world of evangelism.
i believe what c.s. lewis believes about predestination, that god is timeless and we cannot really stretch our minds around the fact that we have free will but that he predestined it too.
if that makes me an arminian, then i will submit to the term, but i won't cage myself by its connotations.
oh, and i have no idea, ask like ryan or someone like that.
there's probably points and stuff i'd miss.
Quick note, if people who are saved were not predestined than that would be something that happens out of God's plan. Everything that happens is part of God's plan. It means that if God didn't plan on that person being saved and only waiting one that person to choose Christ than that means God is not all powerful.
Of course, we know God is all powerful and EVERYTHING is part of God's plan which He planned before He created the earth. And that includes who would be saved.
I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.
It looks so jumbled, to me anyways.
Ok ok, I know I've said all this before and we'll probably never get anywhere. I think we mostly agree actually, we just say some of it differently. I'm not saying that people having the free will to choose salvation or not takes the power away from God. He gives us the ability to choose, He gives us everything we have, and yes He can change a heart toward Him in a second. What I'm saying is not so much that He chooses individuals for salvation and some for Hell, because this would be favoritism, but that He knows already who will choose and who won't. He knows our futures, He created them, and He also puts a yearning in every heart for Him. Some people respond to that yearning and others don't.
but please...enough of that! I keep getting more and more confused every time!
Ryan, care to enlighten us on Arminianism?
Interesting point about God showing favoritism.
I have a question about that,
How is God showing favoritism by choosing some to go to heaven and others to hell?
You know, I should write a post about this. It is one of the subjects I enjoy discussing with people, not meaning to make people tired of it or anything.
You get what I am saying, right?
See the problem with your comment that I see from your point of Veiw Verya, is that God didn't choose what people would be saved. He did suspifically choose each and every person that would go to heaven or hell. Why isn't this favoratism? Simply because God is God. I think we might not be able to wrap our minds entirely around that concept, because it does seems so unfair sometimes. The Bible says that God is the potter, and we are the clay. The clay doesn't decide how the Potter makes him, that is the Potter's job. We are on earth for God's glory, the world isn't centered around man. So if God chooses not to save some people, that is for His own glory.
Besides who said life is fair?
Here I am, getting involved in this now . . .
By the way, Missionary Girl, I agree with what you said.
*sigh* MJ, I'm pretty sure you can out smart us on any theological discussions that go any where near free will and predestination. (at least you out smarted me!)
please forgive me all, I'm really tired from work, and none of this makes a whole lot of sense right now. This is where trust comes in - I trust all of you COMPLETELY in things of doctrine and theology. (sounds like a lame way of not getting involved I know, but some times it's better to just let things be.)
Alright, I have to agree with Beth.
I'm going to write a Camp Hope post now. I think it's time to let this go.
If you have anything you want to personally talk to me about, email me.
yes!! Camp Hope Post!!!
MJ, your a great sport. (purdy darn smart too!) I find it a LOT harder to just let things go.
I admire you. :)
Yea, what she said!
You are pretty smart.
New post! New Post! I NEED to say some thing new!
Come see mine! Oh come see mine!
Candy and popcorn I'll serve in full,
Eat and take your fill,
just leave you bowl by the door.
Thoughts and more are welcomed with joy, smiles and scores will be taken with brays!
Don't disapoint, or rob me of joy.
For friends are why I'm here, that and no more.
Poems and rhymes are tricks of the trade, but do not get in the way.
You are why I'm here, she is why I'm here.
Though non compare to smiles you can see, speech and laughter fill my text.
Wow. Sam, you're totally right, Elenya's writing is full of a double-meaning sense, whether she wants it or not!
And Elenya, when you have had this discussion four times and always end up in the same spot, you let it go a lot faster!!!
new post, new post!
Okay Sorry I didn't reply sooner guys. I haven't been on in a while. Okay for an unbiased view of Arminianism. It is the belief that God has extended the gift of salvation to everyone and everyone has the choice to accept it or deny it. Jesus died for everyone's sins. Along with this also goes the idea that a person can lose their salvation but don't even give that a second thought because it's blatantly against scripture.
I'm not going to get into another argument about this. I'm going to let you guys duke it out for a while. I will tell you this. I can argue Arminianism just as strongly as Calvinism so pick a time and a place where some of us could meet face to face and I'm there.
Oh, one more thing. Please don't confuse predestination with divine foreknowledge. Divine foreknowledge is a given because it means that God KNOWS everthing that is going to happen because he is outside the physical bounds of time and space. Predestination is the idea that God has determined everything that is going to happen and we have no say in it. Foreknowledge and free will can coexist but not predestination and free will.
Thanks Ryan!
dup de doo....new post....de du de do...camp pope, camp pope *whispers*
Great explanation, thanks!
Oh, and the part about predestination and Divine forknowledge was really good too.
Wow, what a discussion! This sort of thing (The deal about God knowing who will go to heaven & hell, and also about He's not within time) always seems to confuse me though. Perhaps I should come back and re read all of this when I'm more awake... It's nearly 11 and I'm exhausted!
new post! new post new post!
*echoes Lindy* New Post! New post, new post. . .
you camp hope post is coming when exactly???
Don't worry, I'm going to drag her on.
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